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rks_blitzer · **Subject:** **Posted:** February 4, 2013 02:47 pm

What is good in the meta and what is in the meta can be two very different things. The [JP Metadeck] tag is for the latter.

Although if you want to spread it by knocking heads at DMvault, be my guest.

nerafim · **Subject:** **Posted:** February 5, 2013 08:35 am

quote from rks_blitzer:

What is good in the meta and what is in the meta can be two very different things. The [JP Metadeck] tag is for the latter.

Although if you want to spread it by knocking heads at DMvault, be my guest.

Uhhhh...your comment sounds contradictory. If the tag is for what is within the meta then why does it not apply to WD rush?

It's already a well known and established decktype, with pretty good high tier tactics attached to it. I don't remember it dropping off for a long time and I don't think its unlikely to see it in an event.

Actually wait...The causality of what you said makes the latter logically include the former, so even if they are different it's irrelevant.

...I'm not really following what you are trying to get at. ;/

rks_blitzer · **Subject:** **Posted:** February 6, 2013 12:22 am

There are potential decks that not many people use that can be good. Then, there are the decks that many people actually use frequently. It's pretty much what the term "metagame" means.

WD grave-evo rush is undeniably good, and it is certainly knownestablished. (Hell, a guy using it won yesterday's DMvault tourney.) However, it doesn't appear nearly often enough to be considered a deck in the metagame.

nerafim · **Subject:** **Posted:** February 6, 2013 04:41 pm

quote from rks_blitzer:

There are potential decks that not many people use that can be good. Then, there are the decks that many people actually use frequently. It's pretty much what the term "metagame" means.

WD grave-evo rush is undeniably good, and it is certainly knownestablished. (Hell, a guy using it won yesterday's DMvault tourney.) However, it doesn't appear nearly often enough to be considered a deck in the metagame.

Ok sure, but to what degree a meta means just "popular" is questionable. The prefix "meta-" means "over" or "beyond", so words formed with it already imply a kind of surpassing and constant rechecking. That's why the idea can be used, a metagame can change but certain qualities must remain constant, and that's why the same word remains constant when discussing competitive gameplay. Decks aren't just popular/frequently present but they are so because they are good.

I don't think you can just make some clear cut difference between "good in meta" and "in meta" without it being shallow, and personally I also believe "metagame" can be used to describe things hidden in the card pool that can surpass the status quo. But I digress. All this aside...

I find the distinction "not nearly often enough" to be kind of arbitrary. This is a strategy game. Variety and difference are part of its nature. There are many Archetypes with tactics, techniques and styles subscribed to them. Heck, even many ways to do the exact same strategy (like say mana ramp to Zeniths).

It's a stretch to ask any decktype to stand out more than others when multiple ones are played at once, and I am talking strictly about the knownandestablished here. You can see certain trends as bigger than others but they are all still trends.

And based on what criteria is it lacking in presence? What you saw being played on DMVault? What the blogs say? Or the whole playerbase of the nation of Japan? Or just the competitive irl ones? By your own definition of "meta" (which is true) you can sample any player base or region and results will vary.

For something to be part of the meta it has to be at least present and played at a fighting chance and then just consistently seen. Looking purely at one criteria is kind of tunneled vision.

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